Intersects current state

[Whitespirits]

Hey all, I have not used intersect for many months, I am wondering after seeing games like Nightmare online how things are holding up and opinions so far? From using it a day or so it feels very powerful as a tool. The big question is how is it working in a real hosted function with multiple players?

 

 

[jcsnider]

Current State: Beta

[jcsnider]

I think this whole topic is escaping from the simplicity of the original question. 

 

Intersect at this point in time is already leagues above any sort of "competition" in which I am aware of. 

 

Intersect is is going to maintain an upwards trajectory of improvement. 

 

Future versions of Intersect will have tools to upgrade from current versions of Intersect with minimal or no data loss. 

 

As such, regardless of what it can do today, it is your best choice by far to use it to design your game now and then you can use your judgement down the line on when the best time to release your game would be. 

[SkywardRiver]

In my honest opinion there's not going to be a successful game with Intersect for some time still to come. That's nothing against the engine or the developers, that's just my realistic take on it at the moment. Games like Nightmare and Arcwyre are very promising indeed, but they'll need a helluva lot of time to polish up and be completely successful.

[Khaikaa]

11 hours ago, SkywardRiver said:

In my honest opinion there's not going to be a successful game with Intersect for some time still to come. That's nothing against the engine or the developers, that's just my realistic take on it at the moment. Games like Nightmare and Arcwyre are very promising indeed, but they'll need a helluva lot of time to polish up and be completely successful.

 

 I disagree, and I'm not any kind of fanboy of intersect, I'm just a normal user.

 

Although I don't know how many players can be handled by the server or how severe is the server malfunction over time, intersect gives all features you need for doing a lot of 100% finished games. Also, you can create "player oriented servers"(by letting players to host their own server of your game to play by themselves or with their friends) so you could not worry about these 2 issues. The point is knowing how to exploit the resources we have in front of our face. You have as much probability of doing a successful game as using strong engines like unity or unreal, so many successful games were made using weaker engines than intersect, so that is not a valid excuse if any intersect-made game doesn't success.

 

I see almost every week how people (who is supposed to be working with intersect more time than I) asks for adding new intersect features that actually can be made by using some variables. Even when you can't do something by variables, a lot of times you can solve that just by being a little smart taking advantage of how intersect works. But, of course, if someone need a very complex npc behaviour to make a successful game(for example), intersect is not their engine. Even when intersect's source is released, they should stop wasting time and start learning unity or unreal and contracting a team to work with.

[jcsnider]

2 minutes ago, Khaikaa said:

 

 I disagree, and I'm not any kind of fanboy of intersect, I'm just a normal user.

 

Although I don't know how many players can be handled by the server or how severe is the server malfunction over time, intersect gives all features you need for doing a lot of 100% finished games. Also, you can create "player oriented servers"(by letting players to host their own server of your game to play by themselves or with their friends) so you could not worry about these 2 issues. The point is knowing how to exploit the resources we have in front of our face. You have as much probability of doing a successful game as using strong engines like unity or unreal, so many successful games were made using weaker engines than intersect, so that is not a valid excuse if any intersect-made game doesn't success.

 

I see almost every week how people (who is supposed to be working with intersect more time than I) asks for adding new intersect features that actually can be made by using some variables. Even when you can't do something by variables, a lot of times you can solve that just by being a little smart taking advantage of how intersect works. But, of course, if someone need a very complex npc behaviour to make a successful game(for example), intersect is not their engine. Even when intersect's source is released, they should stop wasting time and start learning unity or unreal and contracting a team to work with.

 

Please understand there are several viewpoints here, and I think Sky is coming from much more of a developers standpoint, and he does have extensive background in running a fairly popular game.

 

I agree, the tools are there to make a great game, and most of the quirks have workarounds in one way or another.

 

That being said, we don't know yet how Intersect will function under real stress, and while that's a mystery and everyone remains at our mercy for bug fixes, it probably isn't the best idea to release an Intersect game for the masses yet. But someone has to eventually so we can start answering these sorts of questions better.

 

In my personal opinion, the Nightmare launch was fantastic and I really couldn't have been happier with how well that went, how few crashes there were, and what little resources it required on the server hosting side of things.

[Khaikaa]

9 minutes ago, jcsnider said:

 

Please understand there are several viewpoints here, and I think Sky is coming from much more of a developers standpoint, and he does have extensive background in running a fairly popular game.

 

I agree, the tools are there to make a great game, and most of the quirks have workarounds in one way or another.

 

That being said, we don't know yet how Intersect will function under real stress, and while that's a mystery and everyone remains at our mercy for bug fixes, it probably isn't the best idea to release an Intersect game for the masses yet. But someone has to eventually so we can start answering these sorts of questions better.

 

In my personal opinion, the Nightmare launch was fantastic and I really couldn't have been happier with how well that went, how few crashes there were, and what little resources it required on the server hosting side of things.

 

I'm not questioning skyward's experience or knowledge, I don't know him(only readed a few posts about his experience) but that was not my intention. What I'm trying to say is that there is nothing wrote about success, you don't know if your game, youtube channel, commerce... whatever will success until you launch it and give it enough time. Flappy birds was a so crappy game(when talking about features), just a tapping game, and that game earned more money that a lot of extraordinary games. ElRubius is a spanish youtuber who only recorded gameplays of him shouting stupidities with some dubstep backgrounds and he is one of the most popular youtubers on earth. You can create the new call of duty or the new monster hunter and never earn 1000$ and, at the same time, earn millions with a "crappy" social game as habbo hotel.

[SkywardRiver]

I'm going to have to disagree here. If you launch a game before it's ready (or say, before it's engine is tried, tested, and patched up), you're going to be fighting an uphill battle that rivals hacksaw ridge. 90% of players that have a bad experience and leave are not going to come back after you've fixed it. By all means, release a game (in Alpha state of course) but please do not expect it to be a success for quite some time. (Please note when I say success, I merely mean it can successfully pay for your locale's minimum wage for the hours you put into it for a month. Not exactly "successful", but I believe it's more than what most of us can look forward to working within this market ((ORPGs)))

 

I also think the comparison to flappy bird is false. Flappy Bird was, quite literally, 1 in 10 million. It was also not a good game when compared to other stuff on the market. It should also be noted that you shouldn't be basing your games off of a bad game that went viral. Your first and foremost focus should be making a good game.

 

I do fully expect Nightmare to grow into a rather large success for the ORPG scene. This is because it's a good game and will (hopefully) get continued support and updates. I strongly disagree with the statement that you could make the next COD or Monster Hunter and never earn $1000. If you make a solid game that has a market, you're going to earn. The problem with this philosophy in an ORPG scene is that the 2D ORPG market is small. Very small when compared to other game markets. Our market also already has juggernauts like Tibia and, to a lesser extent, ROTMG. There's a reason you see lots of the same names in our game's communities. It's because the market is small unless you create it. I predict Nightmare and a few others have this ability, it will just take more time than the next few months.

[Khaikaa]

The point is that there is not any reason why someone can't make a succesfull game using intersect right now. Maybe you can't make the game you want to, but of course you can make finished games with it.

 

38 minutes ago, SkywardRiver said:

If you launch a game before it's ready (or say, before it's engine is tried, tested, and patched up), you're going to be fighting an uphill battle that rivals hacksaw ridge.

 

I didn't say launching any game before it is ready, you can make a 100% finished game with intersect as it is right now. The thing is that you may not be able to finish a game if you want add features that intersect don't support at the momment to it. That's why I said this:

 

3 hours ago, Khaikaa said:

But, of course, if someone need a very complex npc behaviour to make a successful game(for example), intersect is not their engine. Even when intersect's source is released, they should stop wasting time and start learning unity or unreal and contracting a team to work with.

 

Intersect is a great tool to make ORPGs, but of course you can't make all kind of ORPGs with it at the momment.

 

38 minutes ago, SkywardRiver said:

I also think the comparison to flappy bird is false. Flappy Bird was, quite literally, 1 in 10 million. It was also not a good game when compared to other stuff on the market. It should also be noted that you shouldn't be basing your games off of a bad game that went viral. Your first and foremost focus should be making a good game.

 

I don't think so. The point of comparing with flappy birds is that you don't need to make a extremely full game to success. If you want to create the new TERA 2D you are basically fucked, but you don't need to do a game as ambitious as that and, at the same time, make a funny game (which is the 90% of the real succes). And you can do that with intersect as it is right now.

 

38 minutes ago, SkywardRiver said:

I strongly disagree with the statement that you could make the next COD or Monster Hunter and never earn $1000. If you make a solid game that has a market, you're going to earn.

 

 You may create the best game ever, but that doesn't mean people would play your game, even would know your game. Creating a good game doesn't mean you will earn even the costs of its production.

 

 

[Kibbelz]

Nightmare gunna show all yo fools the true power of Intersect  But yes myself and @Murdoc have been busy but just wait for our upcoming steam release thats gunna blow a hole in the ORPG scene, (hopefully).

[SkywardRiver]

6 minutes ago, Khaikaa said:

The point is that there is not any reason why someone can't make a succesfull game using intersect right now. Maybe you can't make the game you want to, but of course you can make finished games with it

 

One of the many reasons this is simply not possible at the moment is the fact that you have no means to fix any server related bugs at the moment. A troll player finds a way to crash the server? Your game is done until source is released and you can fix it. Again, this is just ONE of many reasons it is terribly difficult/impossible to create a success with a tool that is still in Alpha at the moment. Intersect is great, but it still needs work and the freedom to customize it via programming.

 

8 minutes ago, Khaikaa said:

I didn't say launching any game before it is ready, you can make a 100% finished game with intersect as it is right now. The thing is that you may not be able to finish a game if you want add features that intersect don't support at the momment to it. That's why I said this:

 

Again, this isn't entirely true. It would be comparable to making an RPG with RPG Maker with no plugins... while it's in Alpha. There's a reason RPG Maker and its games have a bad rep.

 

12 minutes ago, Khaikaa said:

I don't think so. The point of comparing with flappy birds is that you don't need to make a extremely full game to success. If you want to create the new TERA 2D you are basically fucked, but you don't need to do a game as ambitious as that and, at the same time, make a funny game (which is the 90% of the real succes). And you can do that with intersect as it is right now.

 

If you create an ORPG that is aimed to be comedic, you will have 0 players after a single week after launch. Feel free to prove me wrong here, but I see absolutely no market for this. You can, and SHOULD, aim to create good, full, and complete games. Start small, of course, but still aim big. You have that luxury with an ORPG. You can start with a small Alpha launch of 10 to 15 levels and build your way up over time, growing your community all the while.

 

17 minutes ago, Khaikaa said:

 You may create the best game ever, but that doesn't mean people would play your game, even would know your game. Creating a good game doesn't mean you will earn even the costs of its production.

 

If you create the best game ever, you're going to be a whopping big success. Yes, there's a little more to it then "Build it and they will come", but with the market size we're talking here, yes, it is. 99% of this community will not even have production costs. If you create a good game, a TRULY good game, and commercialize it, you're going to pay for your production costs, even with minimal marketing, For example (and I hate doing this because it makes me seem preachy or arrogant) but with Life Forge we had a post on AGD, a post on Eclipse of all places, a small Kickstarter, and a Greenlight page. Very, VERY minimal marketing. I would not even say Life Forge is a TRULY good game. It's no Bloodborne or Monster Hunter. It has lots of strengths and lots of weaknesses and it still payed for it's production costs and has yet to cost us money to develop. Now take into account the entree fee for Intersect. Oh, it's free.

 

Let's go over the production costs for let's sayyyyy 90% of the population that will be using Intersect to develop games.

 

Free Engine - $0

Free Graphics found Online (Breeze, etc) - $0

Free Music via Eric Matias or others like him - $0

Free Sound Effects via Eric Matias or others like him - $0

 

Servers. Only about an estimated 10% of games started here will reach a playable phase (if we're going by previous generous statistics via Eclipse). Intersect also has an auto portforwarding feature, so let's take that number and cut it in half. 5% will want hosted servers. Jcsnider currently offers super affordable hosting services. Not even $10 most of the time. So let's say $8.50.

 

5% of games will need $8.50 for servers.

 

Now I understand there will be a few commercial ventures that will actually have production costs, but if you're spending money actively on developing a game, you're more than likely going to have something of somewhat decent quality after you're done, if you know a bit about what you're doing.

 

My base argument here is this: You CAN create games with Intersect as it stands right now. You SHOULDN'T create a game and release it, expecting it to be a success with intersect at this time. Wait for open source to fully commit and expend your resources. You can still use Intersect right now. Hell, I'm dinging out a few maps a day for my upcoming project, but I'm not going to release said project until I have at least a FEW of my planned features that will set my game apart from all the others programmed in.

[panda]

56 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Nightmare gunna show all yo fools the true power of Intersect  But yes myself and @Murdoc have been busy but just wait for our upcoming steam release thats gunna blow a hole in the ORPG scene, (hopefully).

You specifically have been busy playing League.

[Bestboy]

Hello guys,

 

First of all, I want to congratulate you for all the hard work and time that you are putting in this project. I have a deep respect for developers that aim to help others making true their dreams (creating MORPGs).  

 

Personally, I am looking forward to developing a MORPG as a hobby (hopping someday to go all in), but since I am not an expert on coding I find this engine as the perfect tool to start and eventually scale up the game in the future.

 

I chose to comment on this question since I want to understand what Intersects Engine currently is and/or what is not.

 

If I got it right Intersects Engine is based on Eclipse, Elysium, Mirage, and Xtremeworlds, yet, it is built on C# or  VB.net?

 

Moreover, it has the intention to be open source, but by now it is not. Therefore, how customizable the games are so far (big picture)? Is part of the source open?

 

Also, I don´t think that someone (correct me if I am wrong) stress tested the engine and its “networking power”. However, for a deeper understanding of possible possibilities:

-          The engine is built on the server or on the client (as what security flaws would you say it has)?  

-          Moreover, does the server has a max count (as only has 2GB of memory similar to VB6 developed engines)?

-          And more important is the Server setup to load everything at runtime and keep it all loaded, or it loads it as it is required?

 

I guess these are a lot of questions, yet I think they will help many others to better understand the engine and its current state. Additionally, I want to say that I know you are busy people, and therefore, I am truly thankful for your time and dedication.

[Beefy Kasplant]

31 minutes ago, Bestboy said:

snip

 

Also, I don´t think that someone (correct me if I am wrong) stress tested the engine and its “networking power”. However, for a deeper understanding of possible possibilities:

-          The engine is built on the server or on the client (as what security flaws would you say it has)?  

-          Moreover, does the server has a max count (as only has 2GB of memory similar to VB6 developed engines)?

-          And more important is the Server setup to load everything at runtime and keep it all loaded, or it loads it as it is required?

 

snip

 

What an obvious attempt to try and hack us!

[jcsnider]

• Authoritative server model, in theory the biggest security flaw might be a little speedhacking disguised as lag.
• No 2GB memory limit.
• Most things load at runtime, player data doesn't, nor does map tiles.. ram usage is rather low.

 

Big picture it is better than any other engine you can find out there in this category. (Including the open source ones) and it's only going to get better. (MySQL support in B5) and we will be releasing the source in the very near future.

 

[Bestboy]

3 minutes ago, Beefy Kasplant said:

 

What an obvious attempt to try and hack us!

 

 I wish I knew so much coding.

 

7 minutes ago, jcsnider said:

• Authoritative server model, in theory the biggest security flaw might be a little speedhacking disguised as lag.
• No 2GB memory limit.
• Most things load at runtime, player data doesn't, nor does map tiles.. ram usage is rather low.

 

Big picture it is better than any other engine you can find out there in this category. (Including the open source ones) and it's only going to get better. (MySQL support in B5) and we will be releasing the source in the very near future.

 

 

Thank you LiquidSink and Jcsnider. To be honest if what are you saying is true, I can say (after a deep research of engines) that so far the present one (Intersects) is outstanding and  has a huge potential.  

 

PS: Jcsnider, you are a good seller. I think I just made up my mind.