Small Tiles vs Unique Maps

[gaveitatry]

A tile is 32 x 32 pixels.

A single map is 32 tiles wide and 26 tiles tall.

Which means that a map is 1024 x 832.

Do I necessarily need to use 32 x 32 ground tiles to design maps for games?

Couldn't I just create full-sized, unique maps that use 1024 x 832 ground tiles?

If I had a game world of 400 maps, and used the 1024 x 832 ground titles, that would mean that I need 400 tile sets.  Whereas, if I used the smaller 32 x 32 tiles for those 400 maps, I could potentially only use one tile set.  That would make the game a lot smaller (i.e. - 70 MB game instead of 200 MB game).  But would it really reduce lag that much since the game only loads up to nine maps at the same time?  Also, even if I used 32 x 32 tiles, I could potentially still end up using a lot of tile sets if I have a lot of different types of images that I want to incorporate into the map.  So there is even the possibility that using smaller tiles could still result in 400 tile sets, which means that both methods would produce similar results in appearance and performance.  Right?

[jcsnider]

One thing people often don't know or often overlook is the fact that graphic cards (especially older ones) have a hard time rendering large textures. It is often faster to render hundreds of 32x32 pixel tiles than it is to render a single 1024x832 image.

 

Another thing to consider is that if you make any use of the fringe layers (layers meant to appear above the player like tree tops) then you would have to render the lower layers in a 1024x832 image then all the players then another 1024x832 image above the players every single frame. (Think of rendering tiles/images like scrapbooking. Whatever you draw first ends up on the bottom and whatever you draw last is on top)

 

And as you mentioned, you could use 20 tilesets or even 400 tilesets to build those 400 maps but if you run with your idea of using images then you guarantee the use of 400 images (800 if you consider fringe layers) and the most storage being wasted.

P.S. I feel like there is a misconception somewhere about how/where tilesets can be used. You can use the same tilesets across every map you are not limited to the use of tileset1 on map 1 and tileset2 on map 2, etc. You can use tiles from every tileset on every map. In theory you should probably end up with 20 or so tilesets to make a game. Maybe around 80 max.

[Little Pixel]

Im not 100% sure what your trying to say n this post but ill try make some things clear for you.
How many tilesets you have will not create any lag what so ever as they are not actually rendered onto maps untill you use them as a developer. but creating larger maps will create a lot more lag in a map.
just because you have alot more smaller maps does not mean you have to have more tilesets, you can use the exact same tilset for every map if you really wanted to, i personally split my tilesets up via the environment they are from.

[Zetasis]

I think you should look into how Intersect uses tilesets. Tilesets are not specifically tied to any map. A tileset is comprised of 32x32 tiles and any tile from any tileset can be used for any map. With the way tilesets work there is really never going to be a need for 400 tilesets. I hope this helps, if not I can always try to explain more.

[gaveitatry]

40 minutes ago, jcsnider said:

One thing people often don't know or often overlook is the fact that graphic cards (especially older ones) have a hard time rendering large textures. It is often faster to render hundreds of 32x32 pixel tiles than it is to render a single 1024x832 image.

That is super useful information!  That is what I was looking for.  Thanks!

 

40 minutes ago, jcsnider said:

 I feel like there is a misconception somewhere about how/where tilesets can be used. You can use the same tilesets across every map you are not limited to the use of tileset1 on map 1 and tileset2 on map 2, etc.

I didn't have that misconception.  I know we can use tiles on different maps.  I was just considering using map sized tiles instead of 32 x 32 ones for some things like the ground for certain maps.

 

40 minutes ago, jcsnider said:

In theory you should probably end up with 20 or so tilesets to make a game. Maybe around 80 max.

Will I be limited to only 80 or so tile sets max?  If I wanted 1,000 tile sets, would that be a problem?

 

40 minutes ago, jcsnider said:

Another thing to consider is that if you make any use of the fringe layers (layers meant to appear above the player like tree tops) then you would have to render the lower layers in a 1024x832 image then all the players then another 1024x832 image above the players every single frame.

Wouldn't I be able to use a 1024 x 832 ground tile and then various, smaller i.e. 128 x 256 fringe roof top tiles wherever I want?

[WereAlpaca]

21 minutes ago, gaveitatry said:

That is super useful information!  That is what I was looking for.  Thanks!

 

I didn't have that misconception.  I know we can use tiles on different maps.  I was just considering using map sized tiles instead of 32 x 32 ones for some things like the ground for certain maps.

 

Will I be limited to only 80 or so tile sets max?  If I wanted 1,000 tile sets, would that be a problem?

 

Wouldn't I be able to use a 1024 x 832 ground tile and then various, smaller i.e. 128 x 256 fringe roof top tiles wherever I want?

As far as your question for using different sized tiles for fringe layers - yes this should be more than possible. If it's not possible yet, it will definitely become possible once it's open source. You could create your entire bottom layer using one giant tile, then just go over with all the fringe tiles that are 32x32. I think this is the only plausible method where you're actually improving performance.

I was actually looking into creating my lowest layer terrain with an automapping program because I like the way it works:
https://github.com/bjorn/tiled/wiki/Automapping

[Gibier]

Well it's not a good idea. Two 1024x832 tiles will be most easier to stole the map. So if you do that make sure to crypte the maps tileset.

[WereAlpaca]

10 minutes ago, Gibier said:

Well it's not a good idea. Two 1024x832 tiles will be most easier to stole the map. So if you do that make sure to crypte the maps tileset.

I'm not too concerned, I have the means to protect my art under licenses. I'm more curious as to whether or not it would cause a significant decrease in performance. Would having every fringe tile 32x32 with a ground that's one solid image be more efficient?

[Gibier]

It's sure a copyright can help but many people don't give a (well you know what I mean) about copyright and will steal ressource. Not the most brillant people but...

[WereAlpaca]

8 minutes ago, Gibier said:

It's sure a copyright can help but many people don't give a (well you know what I mean) about copyright and will steal ressource. Not the most brillant people but...

Ya I definitely see where you're coming from... people gonna be people. I mean I'm spriting 32x32 characters, what stops them from standing still and copying pixel by pixel?  anyways sorry, kind of going off topic.

[jcsnider]

8 hours ago, gaveitatry said:

Will I be limited to only 80 or so tile sets max?  If I wanted 1,000 tile sets, would that be a problem?

 

Wouldn't I be able to use a 1024 x 832 ground tile and then various, smaller i.e. 128 x 256 fringe roof top tiles wherever I want?

1. No you are not limited to the number of tilesets you use. I simply know that if you have good tilesets you shouldn't need more than 30 for a pretty large game.

2. Yes, with source modifications.