Defense Stat Useless?

[Zerinho]

Hello everyone, it's me Daviih, so, first of all i want to say thanks to @Jcsnider for update Intersect Engine soon as he can making possible my Project, so here it goes my question, how can i work with defense stat?

I mean, i have here one NPC with that stats numbers:

 

As can you see, STR 5, Base Damage 1, Scaling with Atack 0.5x.
Now here it goes a test with one Player what have 64 Defense.

 

The "Bat" does 2 damage, okay by now. Now let's test with the same Player without itens, with 34 Defense points...

 

 

Okay 2 damaged too, that's not normal, i put the wrong values? can someone explain me how this Defense system works? can i change the  value of Defense defense's?  please help...

[jcsnider]

Well.. let's try using the formulas....

 

Assume the players defense is 64:

Random(((1+ (5 * .5))) * 1 (Assuming no crit) * .975, ((1+ (5* .5))) * 1 (Assuming no crit) * 1.025) * (100 / (100 + 64))

Simplified: Random (3.4125, 3.5875) * (.3787)

Minimum damage = 3.4125 * .3787 = 1.29
Maximum damage = 3.5875 * .3787 = 1.35

Both of those will round down to 1. It might hit for 2 sometimes on crits.

 

Now assume the players defense is 32:

Random(((1+ (5 * .5))) * 1 (Assuming no crit) * .975, ((1+ (5* .5))) * 1 (Assuming no crit) * 1.025) * (100 / (100 + 32))

Simplified: Random (3.4125, 3.5875) * (.7575)

Minimum damage = 3.4125 * .7575= 2.58
Maximum damage = 3.5875 * .7575= 2.717

Both of these will round down to 2 or up to 3.

 

 

In short. If no defense is applied at all your maximum hit is going to be 4hp. The formula is designed to decrease damage taken based on defense but not negate it completely so you will definitely see some 1-3 damage hits with your current config. Also keep in mind that the more defense you stack the less effective it gets. So if grinding to 32 defense were to end up blocking 10 damage then grinding to 64 defense would likely only block 16 max.

 

You have a few options from this point on. You can replace the formulas with those of your choosing that work better for you stats/scaling, you can increase the base stats of your monsters, or you can start your players out with comparable defense to the npcs attack. (The player should probably have 5-10 armor when the monsters have 5 attack.)

 

Regards,

JC

 

 

[lurv]

Go into formulas.xml in /resources/, you can see how the formulas for damage works in there.

[Zerinho]

25 minutes ago, lurv said:

Go into formulas.xml in /resources/, you can see how the formulas for damage works in there.

ok  i have 

    <PhysicalDamage>Random(((BaseDamage + (ScalingStat * ScaleFactor))) * CritFactor * .975, ((BaseDamage + (ScalingStat * ScaleFactor))) * CritFactor * 1.025) * (100 / (100 + V_Defense))</PhysicalDamage>
    <MagicDamage>Random(((BaseDamage + (ScalingStat * ScaleFactor))) * CritFactor * .975, ((BaseDamage + (ScalingStat * ScaleFactor))) * CritFactor * 1.025) * (100 / (100 + V_MagicResist))</MagicDamage>

by default, i'll try change this "100/100" for more or less

[lurv]

Try giving the bat a bit more damage, it should show significant damage decreases.

[Zerinho]

Well, i try everything, i simple can't understud how works...maybe wait @jcsnider answer this one...he can explain i believe. 

[Kibbelz]

TLDR

 

@daviih123 you're dealing with such low attack on the bat the system is designed to always do SOME damage no matter how small. Once you start working with persay 20 strength instead of 5 and then increase defence from there, you will see the damage output decrease. You're working with small numbers and the system is always going to do at least 1 damage so thats why you're not noticing anything.

[Zerinho]

Well it's very confuse...why maximum attack is 4? why minimum attack is 1? the player can't deny? how can i edit formulas.txt for change the maximum attack dealing by a npc? i mean 1.39 for 2.58 not is a big difference, but 32 to 64 defense ITS a big difference whereas the max stat is 255, you see my point? my players need get 255 of defense at lvl 30? 'cause level 30 npc deals 30 damage. If players have level 30 and 30 of armor he simple die. Should take zero damage, or at least 1. Can i change for this without source? I'm very confused sorry.......

 

@edit anyway i find a way to get balanced, w/e

[Beefy Kasplant]

You can edit the formulas yourself. Just find what works for you.